Pictured: Executive Producers Ben Stiller, Stuart Cornfeld, Steven Buchbaum; Directors/Producers Gregory Sherman, Jeff Sherman; EP David Permut.
Read the May 22, 2009 interview in The Desert Sun: Page 1 & Page 2.
Extended version:
It is a tough task to find a person who cannot sing a Sherman Brothers song by heart. As merry as "I Wanna Be Like You," "Winnie the Pooh" and "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" are, the relationship between the men who created them is far more tumultuous. The Boys: The Sherman Brothers' Story illustrates this rocky collaboration between Robert and Richard Sherman, the men who have been an award-winning songwriting team since the Sixties.
Despite their history with family-friendly movies, their own families barely knew one another. Sons Gregory Sherman (of Richard) and Jeff Sherman (of Robert) decided to change that by co-directing a documentary of their fathers' lives.
Palm Springs resident and producer David Permut became involved with the film after meeting Gregory at an L.A. comedy club. Gregory spoke to him about living only seven blocks away from his cousins and yet only recently reuniting with them.
Permut recalled his shock as he said to Gregory, "My God, your father and uncle created the most iconic family music of so many generations, and yet they are so disconnected in their personal lives while so connected in their business lives."
Intrigued by the story, Permut spoke to the cousins about making a dramatic feature film about their fathers. As a starting point, they created a twenty-minute documentary following Robert and Richard as they reunited for a Broadway production of Mary Poppins, which featured songs that launched them into movie history and won them two Oscars.
Based on this short film, both Walt Disney Pictures (home of the Sherman Brothers' greatest success) and Ben Stiller's production company, Red Hour Films, signed on to produce a feature-length version (the latter with Stiller's intention of portraying a brother). The dramatic version was set aside as the documentary became the format to preserve the family's legacy.
As brothers Robert and Richard Sherman were filmed in parallel interviews, directing cousins Gregory and Jeff Sherman were also given parallel interviews by The Desert Sun.
Why did you decide to work together on this film?
Jeff: In the mid-Sixties this rift started, and then we never socialized or had holidays with (Richard's family). Our relationships consisted of seeing each other at premieres or Sherman Brothers events.
Gregory: (Our families) had always had a sort of "keep out" sign, but the stars aligned at the 2002 Chitty Chitty Bang Bang premiere in London. During a curtain call for our dads -- who were sitting on opposite sides of the theater -- they kind of waived at the crowd and then waived at each other with a hand signal.
Jeff: My dad put his hand up with five fingers. I asked him about it, and he said, "Oh, that's our hand signal." At a lovely party at the In & Out Club, one of first people I ran into was Greg, and we ended up talking all night long. It was like comparing notes of two halves with binoculars.
Gregory: One of our biggest motivations in doing this was that our dads never were publicity seekers. For every song that's in that movie, there were 20 songs that aren't.
Do you and your cousin share similar traits with your respective fathers?
Gregory: Quite a bit. We both have strong personalities and take on our dads' personalities. We locked heads on fights that happened 30 years ago, taking on our dads' points of view. We had to create a balance where both of these guys were our heroes. We wanted to tell a compelling story from both points of view.
Jeff: Similar to their relationship in a way, we just had different means of doing things. It is surprising that brothers could fight and stay in business with each other, and the output of their material is so positive. They both really love each other.
Both share an optimism, looking on the bright side of life. Especially with my father and what he went through in World War II, he doesn't linger in the darkness. He just wants to bring happiness to people, and that really came through.
Was your childhood filled with music?
Gregory: Oh my goodness, absolutely. In the house we grew up in we had five pianos. At any point, (Richard) would run off and starting composing.
Jeff: My grandfather (songwriter Al Sherman) taught me piano every Sunday. He was my favorite human on the planet until I had children. My dad would come home with click tracks (which synch music to movie scenes). My sisters and I would hear these things and do little dance numbers.
Are you or your family musical?
Jeff: Music is my main passion. I'm now writing a Broadway musical, which will probably open in London (where my father lives). My two sisters were professional singers, and my two sons are both very musical.
Gregory: What influenced me was not wanting to go into the music writing business, as it is pretty daunting to look up at that body of work (of my father's). Our musical generations go way, way back. Our great-grandfather was a bandleader and violinist, and the previous grandfather a clarinetist. My younger sisters and youngest son are very musical. Music is definitely a vital part of all our lives.
What is your favorite song that your father wrote?
Jeff: I'm the biggest Sherman Brothers fan you'll ever meet. I have different favorite songs. "A Spoonful of Sugar" because I had something to do with (the concept). In "A Man Has Dreams," Mr. Banks has lost his job but is very poetic.
In Tom Sawyer, the "River Song." John Williams was conducting and producer Arthur Jacobs gave me special drive-on pass so that I could visit the soundstage every day. Charley Pride sang "River Song" about a boy growing into a man, and my father turned to me and said, "I wrote that for you."
Gregory: There are a few, but I think "River Song" from Tom Sawyer. (Jeff and I) were both at the recording session with John Williams conducing and arranging. Both of our dads turned to us and said, "I wrote that for you." We were both going through various changes; I was becoming a teenager and Jeff was in college.
What did your father think about this film before you started?
Gregory: It was a journey for all of us. If you have a dysfunctional family, I would highly recommend not putting them under a microscope for a few years.
Jeff: Originally, we started with a biopic, and he was all for this. The rift aside, every family had problems, but I had a great childhood. I knew Walt Disney (and other filmmakers), and I thought everybody had that. My dad would've rather been home painting or writing books; for my dad this was sort of his job. He would come home, and we would play catch.
What does your father think of the finished product?
Gregory: My dad is absolutely over the moon about it -- very emotional and very proud to have this capsule for future generations. The world premiere was in San Francisco, and my dad performed at a party afterwards. (The brothers) haven't seen it together.
The Disney executives wanted something different to happen (between the brothers), and so did we, but what happened is real and we had to kind of live with that. (Disney) really gave us a lot of latitude and didn't restrict (reporting on) when things were bad at Disney. As first-time filmmakers, we were thrilled.
Jeff: He was very moved by it. My father's humble, and I think their names weren't as connected to their songs.
AJ Carothers, who was probably the only real friend to both brothers, was dying of cancer (during the filming). He knew more than anybody, and he called us one day and said he was feeling up to an interview. About a month and a half after it, he was gone. The Sherman Brothers takes a village, and I love all of them.
What did you know about your uncle before you began filming?
Jeff: I knew my uncle a bit. I've been in the business since '79, so I had a couple of occasions. I worked on the "Enchanted Musical Playhouse" with the Osmond families and got to work with my uncle. I really didn't know him as an uncle since I was a little kid; he was more of my dad's partner.
Gregory: There was a joke that my dad was Tigger and Bob was Eeyore. I didn't realize how incredibly well-versed (Bob) was, how well-read he was, what a terrific painter he was -- all the reasons why songwriting wasn't his only vocation.
What was the most interesting thing you learned about your uncle during filming?
Gregory: I understood his struggle a little better, regarding what he'd gone through in World War II. My uncle was prolific from an early age as a poet and athlete. There's nothing new about partners with a riff or struggle, but these guys kept at (their jobs) for 50 years.
Jeff: Sam Goldwyn Jr. started talking about (Robert) as a kid, and I was really surprised to hear he was shy and awkward around girls, sort of how he was and how he changed after the war. You know your father, but when you talk to people who worked with them intimately you get this whole filled-in 3D vision. I feel like I really know him now, with his struggles and the way he developed. I kind of felt like I was sitting with my father like a peer for the first time. It explained so much to me when I would call people up and they were so excited. He's just a really loved guy, as is my uncle.
Has the dynamic changed between your family and your uncle's family?
Gregory: I think there's a thaw of sorts. I think that maybe when the film comes out and does well, that might melt a few more icicles. There have been no big hugs or family picnics, but maybe down the line. That would be welcome.
Jeff: I would say I'm much closer to the Dick Shermans. During the filming, we talked about family riffs and which lines were offensive, but we got through it. I can't deny that there's something about the two of us that made (the film) better than just one of us doing it.
There's stuff you can't resolve, that you can't make better. My dad and uncle came from a generation when people didn't express much to each other. But Dick sees my dad talking very positively about him and vice versa, talking to each other in a way that they wouldn't talk to each other face to face, and saying what they should've said.